[00:00:01] Speaker A: Well, here we are, the Broken Bow podcast with Kathy. We are going to catch up on what's doing in Broken bow. End of 2025, early 2026. So, Kathy, how the hell are you? [00:00:13] Speaker B: I'm great. Things are rocking along out here. Busy, busy. [00:00:18] Speaker A: Okay, wonderful. So what does it look like right now in your market? It's a very. Well, first of all, let's break it down for somebody who's never heard of it or been there before. It's a unique market to say the least. [00:00:30] Speaker B: We're in southeastern Oklahoma. We are a purely vacation area. There's nothing else here. There's only about 440 permanent residents in the area. So all the short term rentals are fully furnished. They come, you know, ready to go turnkey. There's really nothing else out here. So we have about 10 million people within a four hour driving radius. We get mainly our clients from Dallas. So we get about 4 million visitors a year, which is still increasing. We're all driving, no fly in and we're pretty much busy all year round. We have a, we have a big slowdown in. Sorry about that. We have a big slowdown in September. September and January are our slowest months. Rest of the time we're busy. Like this month we're at about 90% capacity. Yeah. [00:01:30] Speaker A: So normal. What would you say is the average, you know, occupancy rate for an entire year? [00:01:39] Speaker B: Well, we have some really, really big cabins that sleep 30 to 50 and those are probably at 45%. They do very, very well. But the one bedrooms, they're probably 75 or above. My one bedroom that I have is 90% all the time this year. [00:02:01] Speaker A: The whole year. [00:02:02] Speaker B: Okay, the whole year. 90% for the year. I've had maybe two days empty, you know, barely here and there. And it's during the week, it's during the week. It's on weekends. It's four day weekends. It's, you know, because people can just drive and come, so. They do. [00:02:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, you're hustling though, right? I mean, I am hustling, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're adjusting prices often and all that kind of stuff. [00:02:26] Speaker B: I do adjust prices. I do have lower prices the beginning of the week and then I raise them. If I have orphan days. I adjust that. I have added things to my cabin. I have a three hole putt putt. I have a sauna. I have swings around my fire pit. I have, believe it or not, a DVD player with DVDs from the 70s, 80s and 2000s. And you'd be Shocked at how many people, people mentioned they loved watching Smokey and the Bandit, so. [00:02:56] Speaker A: Well, you got me there. I, I think that that is just about the greatest thing in, in history is the Smokey and the Bandit. [00:03:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I've got everything. So people come in and they, you know, if it's like I had a, you know, a family of four, it was a grandparents and the grandchildren, and he thought it was the coolest thing ever that he could show his grandson that movie. And they watched ET for the first time because, you know, that's not something that's on TV all the time. So it's, it's about being unique and it's about having different things. [00:03:30] Speaker A: Okay. And you mentioned one bedroom. So are those common? Are they, you know, can I just reach out and grab a one bedroom or are they few and far between? [00:03:40] Speaker B: No, no, there's plenty out here. It's one of our bigger things that we do. We do lots of one bedrooms. We do some really, really big cabins and then the ones in the middle. So we really need to sleep. The 8 to 10 number is weird here. So 12 and above or 8 and under, there's like a gap at 10 to 12, but I'm not sure what that is. But those are the ones that probably rent. The less the least I got you. [00:04:09] Speaker A: Okay. How much does it cost me to get into a one bedroom right now? [00:04:14] Speaker B: I can get you in for. If you get an older one, one that needs just a tiny bit of fixing up, I can get you in for under maybe 350 to 4. But a really nice one that's going to generate 70 to $90,000 a year in income is probably closer to 5, 550. [00:04:33] Speaker A: And if I want to get up into a four or five bedroom, what am I looking at there price wise? [00:04:37] Speaker B: Oh, so I can get you one that needs a little bit of work for in the 6 and 7 hundreds. Or we can go all the way up to 2 and a half to 3 million. So I sold one that was 2.1 million that generates $330,000 a year in income. [00:05:00] Speaker A: In other words, it did the previous year with rental history showing that, or it was projected at that much. [00:05:05] Speaker B: No rental history showing that. Verified rental history. Now it's big, it has, it has views which are rare around here, but it does very well. There's another one that sleeps 32, has eight bedrooms. It has a pond, a fishing pond and a pool. And it's verified right now for this whole year. She's at 297,000 gross. [00:05:36] Speaker A: And these. These are hustlers, though I don't want to paint the impression that this is easy to do. [00:05:41] Speaker B: No, they are hustlers. This is not easy. They have all of the bells and whistles, so it's not like you can just, you know, pop in and do it unless you spend a ton of money and it's already done. But, yes, it can. You know, they're hustling. They're thinking outside the box. Now, a regular $800,000 cabin or $700,000 cabin. Let's take one. $700,000 cabin, four bedroom, four bath. Should generate. Well, I don't know. There are cabins out there that are generating between 120 and $150,000 a year gross. Now, what's your payment? All those things. That depends. But they'll do it. But you got to hustle, and you got to pay attention. You can't just turn it over and think that it's going to do it. [00:06:29] Speaker A: I got you. Yep. No, and I just want to make that clear because I totally understand. You know, I'm. I'm hustling every day, and. And we want to make sure that you. You understand that the listener understands what they're getting themselves into. [00:06:41] Speaker B: And. [00:06:41] Speaker A: And it's great. I love it. I love every minute of. I've got three guests that are furious at me right now, and there's nothing I can do about it except for kiss their ass and send them cookies or something, you know, and that's just part part of it. [00:06:52] Speaker B: Well, and I had a lightning strike last weekend in my one bedroom, and, you know, so I'm out of commission at the moment, but I'll get it fixed. So. And they weren't. They weren't very happy. But, you know, I bought them stakes and did what I could and got them another place. [00:07:09] Speaker A: So, you know, when you say lightning strike, what do you mean? It hit your. Your breaker box or something like it shut the whole house down. [00:07:15] Speaker B: The tree. It hit the tree next to my cabin and followed the line of the string lights, knocked out the pine telephone box, burn it up. Burn up the side of the cabin, went down the tree route and blew up the water line. So, yeah, it was a pretty big. A pretty big strike. But the great thing about this place is people were on it right away. It's such a small town that you can really get great service here, you know, as far as people knowing you. And it's Oklahoma. It's like, you know, I mean, we think we're The Midwest. I know Nebraska is the Midwest, but we think we're the Midwest. And so we have kind of that mentality. Everybody kind of helps everybody. They take everybody on to raise. You become, you know, a lot of people become very good friends with their cleaners and, you know, it's nice that way. It's not. We're big enough that people can make money and we just keep getting bigger, but because this is the only thing people do to make money. You're a cleaner, you're a management company, you're a handyman, you're an H Vac company. That's all there is here. So, you know, they value their livelihood. They know there's no messing around. [00:08:33] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Very, very similar to where we live. A little smaller, I think, than. Than your average vacation town. [00:08:42] Speaker B: Yes. [00:08:43] Speaker A: But. Yep, that's cool. Let's look at a map and explain to me what I'm looking at here. This is just a regular old Google map here. [00:08:51] Speaker B: And so you're moving. Okay, so where it says Broken Bow, that is actually the turn where you go towards Ho Chi town. So if you go north. So you're going to go north on 259. Yeah. So if you go north on 259, you're going to see there's 259A right where you've got the little lines and the traffic there. Right. From maybe three miles south of that to about 10 miles north of this is the entire town. It's not big. It's about 14 miles long and about 10 miles wide. So it's a small area. And the unique thing is, is that people always ask, well, what is there to do there? Well, there's a lake, there's a river, there's fishing, there's boating, there's hiking. You know, there's wineries and breweries and there's, you know, all kinds of things like that. But mainly people are coming to hang out in the cabins. That's the main thing they're doing. So that's why it's important to have things at your cabin, you know, for people to do. [00:10:10] Speaker A: So what about this area down here? Is this considered the city center? [00:10:14] Speaker B: No, that's actually. That's Broken Bow. And there is nothing. There is nothing there to rent. That is all. Just Walmart, Arby's. So it's really further north. That's where the grocery store is. But then you go north to get to the cabins. About four miles from here, you're gonna get to the cabins. [00:10:37] Speaker A: I see. And there's Literally, you know, what is it like out here? Is there nothing to do and you have to go into town to do things or whatever. [00:10:45] Speaker B: That is the town like where you've got your little cursor that says Girls Gone Wine. See that? Where says hype she. Okay, so right in there. So all in here, you're never going to go into Broken Bow unless you're going to the grocery store. Everything else is right in this area where Girls Gone Wine is and all that stuff. So there's restaurants, there's a safari with, you know, animals, there's a petting zoo. There's again the lake. There's a lot of fishing and hiking and zip lines and places to shop and things like that. But there's no big attraction. Like there's no one thing people come there to do. The one thing is the cabin. So they'll go to restaurants and they'll hang out and they'll go to the. But that's why our cabins are so nice. They're very, very nice. There's also, we have mountains, but again, they're in the technical term, they're not like what you would get in the Smokies. And there's very few that have a view. So the view is not really that big of a deal around here. It's just getting away and getting to the woods. So there's nothing, nothing like this within a four mile, within a four hour radius. There's nothing like this actually anywhere in Oklahoma or, you know, Dallas with the lake and the river and the mountains that we have. [00:12:15] Speaker A: All right, let's zoom out here. Let's see what cities are going to this area. So again, you mentioned Dallas, that's down here. [00:12:23] Speaker B: Yeah. So we have Dallas, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, and then probably, you know, some places in Arkansas, the smaller towns, but just between Dallas, Fort Smith, maybe we get people from Louisiana. We have a lot of owners from Louisiana. But Dallas alone, probably Plano and above, there's 8 million people in Dallas. So between that and the other smaller areas, we have close to 10 million people within a four, a four hour driving radius. And Dallas is three, three and a half hours, depending on where you live. [00:13:00] Speaker A: I see. And this is, this is the getaway to the mountain spot? [00:13:05] Speaker B: Yep, it's the getaway to the mountain spot. And a lot of people don't even still know about us. We're still growing. I mean, there's people in Oklahoma that do not know about Broken Bow. So the Choctaw tribe, which is the main tribe in this area, they're doing A big advertising campaign, so that'll be great. And then we do have a big casino. Well, big ish casino. So there is a brand new casino that's been open almost two years now. So people do come to do that, but really it's hanging out in the cabin, sitting by the fire pit, you know, all the different things just getting away. That's what people like. [00:13:44] Speaker A: Just one casino. [00:13:46] Speaker B: There's one big casino here, and they're gonna expand it. I think we're hoping they're gonna do a music venue. We have a bunch of casinos in Oklahoma that have big music venues. So we'll get a lot of the big acts that come through and you know, the smaller ones that are still traveling. Like sticks. [00:14:07] Speaker A: Yeah, the casino bands like sticks. [00:14:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:14:11] Speaker A: Winger. Yeah. Okay, cool. [00:14:14] Speaker B: Winger. [00:14:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:15] Speaker B: Sebastian Bach, right? [00:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, he's great. Anyway. Okay, cool. So the casino. Yeah, there was a lot of promise there. It seems like it's going well with that, so that's cool. All right, well, let's talk some deals. So what are we looking at right now for buyers and sellers? What are our sellers moving? You know, nationwide? It seems like they. They're kind of delusional and holding out for prices they may or may not get. But what do you. What are you seeing so much here? [00:14:44] Speaker B: We're getting some really good deals. So the sellers that are ready to sell, a lot of them are buying more cabins here. They're getting rid of one and building a bigger one, or, you know, there's some other thing going on that they're selling. But no, we're getting really good deals. We're getting some substantial amounts off. So it's definitely still a buyer's market. A lot of people trying to buy before the end of the year. So that's kind of. We got a rush right now. People trying to get in before the end of the year and get a couple of reservations under their belts. [00:15:17] Speaker A: So you are seeing. You're seeing buyers buy? [00:15:21] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. Because absolutely. [00:15:24] Speaker A: Some markets are not seeing that. And I don't even. I don't even mean just short term. I mean, nationwide, primary markets, etc. We're seeing some towns that are just sitting there rotting away. They can't get a, you know, buyer to save their lives. But you're. You are. Same product move. [00:15:37] Speaker B: Yes. So, like, even other parts of Oklahoma, things are just sitting. Especially in the regular re. Regular real estate market. It's. It's tough. But right now, Broken Bow is very, very busy. I think it's because the Growth that we still see. The prices are good, the revenue is good that people are projecting and actually getting. But again, you have to work at it and it's easy to get here. So, you know, like right now, you know, there's issues with flying or whatever. You can always drive here and people like that, they like getting here and they like just being able to get away. So I think that's why we're seeing it. And I also have people that are owners that own three or four that are buying again right now, like they're getting another one before the end of the year. So I think that speaks a lot towards how we do things here. That it really does do pretty well if people that already have them are buying more. [00:16:39] Speaker A: Do you have any idea of a days on market currently? [00:16:44] Speaker B: Boy, just ranges, I mean, all over the place. Yeah, it's all over the place. I mean, we, we can sit on the market for a really long time here. And what's strange is the really, really good ones, the ones that are booked all the time, stay on the market the longest because we can't get in to show them. We can't get in to even get a video. So those tend to stay on the market, especially if they're booked all the time. Then we definitely have, you know, and then, and then people are just buying them sight unseen. And we're getting a video when we can get the inspection done. [00:17:20] Speaker A: So what's selling faster? Something that needs work or something that's ready to go. [00:17:25] Speaker B: Ready to go? [00:17:26] Speaker A: Yeah. You're finding most, most, most folks don't want to deal with it. [00:17:32] Speaker B: I mean, I think even the ones that are, you know, everybody wants to put their spin on things. So even the ones that are pretty ready, people go in and do stuff. Pools are a brand new thing for us. We've never had pools before. A year and a half ago, nobody had a pool up here. Now there's about 40. So in 3,000 cabins, 40 pools isn't a lot. So people are doing those kinds of things. But yeah, unless you have the time and you can get a really, really good deal on something, people are getting the ones that are turnkey and ready to go. [00:18:09] Speaker A: I'm gonna tell you my thoughts on cap on pools. I don't like them. It's too much work, you know. And on the beach is, I have, I have a beach house that has a pool and I have two other beach houses that have access to a pool that is, you know, a community pool, that kind of thing. And again, I don't have a property in your market, so I'm speaking a little out of turn here, but in the Smokies, for instance, these pool. These pool cabins got to be all the rage. And Covid. And that's great. And, you know, people seem to like them, but it's just not for me. I just don't. I don't want to deal with it. It's too much work, and especially if it's indoors and all that humidity and things like that and. But I. You. This is me personally. I'm not saying that for the right person. They're fantastic. And if you want a pool cabin, again, this is more smokies in my brain because I'm super familiar with that area. Go for it. Absolutely. Go for it. I would never say don't do it. I will. But it is. It's not for me personally. What are you. Are you seeing issues with these pools because they are kind of new? [00:19:10] Speaker B: Well, we're. We're new at it, so not yet, but we're. They're not indoors, so we don't get that cold. We'll get maybe dusting of snow, and we'll get. Sometimes we'll get, you know, in the 20s, sometimes teens, but we don't get that cold. So. And we're doing in ground fiberglass, because they last forever. So it's in ground fiberglass, outside heated, and they are charging people to heat them. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:42] Speaker B: So it seems to be working so far, because we are. It's a forest, but there are places where there aren't trees, so you can get sun, and it's just another thing for people to do. Again, there's not, you know, Dollywood is not here. Right. We don't have anything like that. So another activity is great. They're reasonably priced. Not everybody has them, but so far, so good. But no, they are not inside. They are outside. [00:20:14] Speaker A: Okay, that's good to hear on both counts because fiberglass is a little less expensive to put in. And you, you know, you just dig a hole and drop it in, basically. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Or drop it in, put the concrete around it. We have the guys, one of the guys that installs them, actually, the two people that do them have a maintenance company and they've got reasonable prices. So like I said, so far, so good. That doesn't mean it's going to always work, but right now there aren't that many. [00:20:40] Speaker A: Are you seeing them being added to existing cabins or they're only on new constructions? [00:20:45] Speaker B: Yes. Added to new. Added to existing cabins. [00:20:50] Speaker A: Do you have new construction? [00:20:51] Speaker B: Yes, We. Do you have a lot as we did? No, not as much. It's really slowed down. [00:20:57] Speaker A: Good, right? Do you think that's good? [00:20:58] Speaker B: Yes, very good. Very, very good. It's slowed down. We don't have as many. A lot of them are custom builds, so we don't have as many. And they're all really big. All of the new builds are humongous. 4,000 plus square feet. [00:21:15] Speaker A: Yeah. What is with that? That's all the vacation towns like you, you know. Right. I live in Destin 30A and right down the street they're building and every one of them is this massive, like just. [00:21:25] Speaker B: I don't understand it. So for me, I think 24 to 30 is the max for me personally, because for me, I would think, well, somebody's going to cancel, right? Or somebody's kid's going to get sick or. So the bigger, bigger, bigger ones worry me. But there's a. There's some that are really big. I don't know. I mean, I would prefer something kind of in the middle, but, you know, people rent them. I mean, they make a lot more money. There's one here that I think sleeps 40. That's. I mean, I don't air DNA says they do $500,000 a year. I don't know if they do or not. [00:22:06] Speaker A: This is a hotel. [00:22:08] Speaker B: No. [00:22:09] Speaker A: You know what I mean? But when you get that big. [00:22:11] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. It has a big giant silver slide in the middle of it. [00:22:15] Speaker A: Do you not have hotels? [00:22:17] Speaker B: We, we have the casino that sleeps. That has maybe 150 rooms. Did not affect anything. We have a lodge that I don't even know how many it sleeps. But no, we don't have any hotels. [00:22:31] Speaker A: Okay, so all, all houses, basically all houses, all cabins. [00:22:37] Speaker B: Some people tried to do tiny houses that didn't really work. [00:22:42] Speaker A: And what about somebody. Is anybody doing the tents? [00:22:44] Speaker B: Oh, somebody thought about doing it, but no, nobody. No, no. [00:22:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:50] Speaker B: No glamping here. [00:22:52] Speaker A: I'm with you there. For me, it's a little on the trashy side. It's not something I'm really all that into, but people seem to like it. I don't know. It doesn't have a foundation. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a tent, you know, I just, I'm not going. [00:23:05] Speaker B: No, I'm not. No, no. And it just didn't work here. The. We have a very broad range of people that come here. Very broad in every way, shape or form, from age to everything else. [00:23:19] Speaker A: I can't even Believe we're talking about these tents, you know what I mean? [00:23:21] Speaker B: But that was. [00:23:22] Speaker A: I mean, that was coveted. Everybody had all these crazy ideas in Covid, you know. [00:23:26] Speaker B: No, Nope, not doing it. Not here. [00:23:29] Speaker A: I hear you. You know, so you're perfectly describing. This is a short term shop style market where there's not a lot of hotels. It's a lot of homes, single family homes that are being rented overnight, which is, you know, it's really not that common in. In the grand scheme of the world to have an entire area with houses that people come and go every three days. It's. [00:23:52] Speaker B: And they're all cabins, so they're all set up for. They all have fire pits, they all have hot tubs. They're just, you know, really cute little cabins of all different sizes that people come and hang out in. [00:24:08] Speaker A: I got you. All right, well, what else do we need to know? If I want to buy a property in Broken Bow right now, why would I. Why would I do that? And how do I. How do I pick? [00:24:21] Speaker B: Well, you. I will help you pick. It depends on what you're looking for and how much money you want to spend and all those things and we can get together and decide, you know, I'll let you know what. And all of the areas are good here. It's very small, but some have really bad roads so we want to stay away from those. And then I'll let you know, kind of the ones I, I think will do the best. And then we can figure out your style and what you like and. And we can get you in one. There's. There are a bunch available and some really great ones and some really, really good prices. [00:24:57] Speaker A: So to break it down, a little bit more expensive than say your average vacation cabin town. But maybe not beach prices. [00:25:06] Speaker B: No. [00:25:07] Speaker A: Yeah, nicer quality. Like we're generally looking at a fairly high quality. Nice. Nice looking home. [00:25:16] Speaker B: Very nice looking. Nice amenities. Higher end style. And we have all styles. We have modern farmhouse and you know, more of a lodge looking cabin. [00:25:27] Speaker A: What is a farmhouse cabin? What does that look like? [00:25:31] Speaker B: White walls and. Oh, sheetrock. No, no, like white pine walls and kind of a, you know, farmhouse type decor. Think magnolia. [00:25:43] Speaker A: Right, Right. [00:25:43] Speaker B: What is that lady's name? Yeah. [00:25:45] Speaker A: Joanna. Joanna. [00:25:46] Speaker B: Hip and Joanna. Yes. [00:25:47] Speaker A: She changed the world. [00:25:50] Speaker B: She changed our world. Change my world. [00:25:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Anyway. Okay, cool. So what else do we need to know? I guess we need to know how to find you and anything on the way out. [00:26:00] Speaker B: So. Kathy Craig. Kathy at the short term shop dot com. My number is 918-404-7467. And I would love to help you. I work 24 7, just like Luke. [00:26:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I do, too. And Kathy closes deals, so if you don't want to buy a house, don't call Kathy, because this is what she does, and she's good at it. And. And we're very happy to have you, so thank you. [00:26:25] Speaker B: Well, thank you, Luke. I appreciate the time. [00:26:27] Speaker A: All right, we'll see you soon. And catch up on the Broken Bow podcast.